Comments on: Why I Don’t Want A First Century Church (Part 1) http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/ Rantings of a Pastor/Gamer/Historian/Geek Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:23:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Kevin Stover http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-226 Kevin Stover Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:12:29 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-226 Patsy, Thanks for your response. Also, thanks for reading our blog and our newsletter, even though you aren't a part of our "local" body. We know that LifePoint doesn't have the market cornered on the best ways to "do" church, heck, we don't even have the best ways of "being" the church! But, we are trying. I think that the church will start to make a difference in Cleveland when Christians understand, like you apparently do, that churches aren't in competition with one another. It's not about "traditional" versus "contemporary" versus "emergent". Everyone "does" church in a way that reaches a certain group of people. One of my favourite quotes is: "It takes different churches to reach different kinds of people." I agree totally with your comment, and thanks again. Patsy,

Thanks for your response. Also, thanks for reading our blog and our newsletter, even though you aren’t a part of our “local” body. We know that LifePoint doesn’t have the market cornered on the best ways to “do” church, heck, we don’t even have the best ways of “being” the church! But, we are trying.

I think that the church will start to make a difference in Cleveland when Christians understand, like you apparently do, that churches aren’t in competition with one another. It’s not about “traditional” versus “contemporary” versus “emergent”. Everyone “does” church in a way that reaches a certain group of people. One of my favourite quotes is: “It takes different churches to reach different kinds of people.” I agree totally with your comment, and thanks again.

]]> By: Patsy http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-227 Patsy Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:13:33 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-227 Thanks for all the thoughts and opinions I have read on this topic. I do not attend Lifepoint. I attend a local Baptist church here in town. I saw the Lifepoint poster, looked you guys up on the internet, and have been receiving your newsletters ever since. My family and I attend your traditional "church". We attend services Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night. We still have Sunday school which we like to call "small group". There is nothing wrong necessarily with the way we do "church". But here is what I have experienced and come to understand. My family went through training to lead a house church several years ago. The training was led by our Missions Pastor who was very progressive in his thinking. That training session was one of the most blessed times that we have ever experienced in the church. We built deep relationships with each family that attended this training. My husband and I grew spiritually during the training and have continued to grow after. We lived "life on life" with these people. We ate with them. We prayed with them. We read God's word together. We Knew each others needs, hurts, joys, kids, likes, dislikes, etc. We helped each other paint houses, fix stuff, took care of each others kids, made food for each other when it was needed, etc. We got to know each other in a very intimate way. We became family. That training session ended. We loved it, but we were heavily involved at our church during normal church hours and were in leadership so we had many responsibilities. This training was additional to all our other obligations at church. So we became tired and overwhelmed. The truth is most people attend church because that is what they are supposed to do. It is a good, moral thing to do, and God wants us to not forsake the fellowship. They serve because that is what they are supposed to do. They feel connected because they serve, but I have seen many families that when they stop serving they realize they were not connected at all. They have a false sense of connection. They get lost in the cracks. So the problem with traditional church is that unless you intentionally build close relationships outside of service and church times you don't experience the life of the body. You don't experience community. And so many of those who serve are so tired from their serving that outside of their church responsibilites they just want to rest. But I must go back to one thing that God taught me this past year. We don't love him first. We love ourselves first. All that we do should be because we love him first; church attendance, service to others, small groups, house churches. House churches have their good and bad points as does the traditional church. Each person can decide what works best for them. The most important thing to do is to love God first and then love our neighbor as ourselves. As we go, we should disciple those who are young in the faith and encourage those who are pursuing God. We need to be intentional about building community within the Body of Christ. And as we are full of Christ we need to be a light in the world for those who are perishing. So instead of "doing church" we need to BE the church. Whether that is in homes or at a building that has been set apart for the purpose of believers coming together. Thanks for reading my rambling. May God bless your efforts and His ministry He has given you to do. Thanks for all the thoughts and opinions I have read on this topic. I do not attend Lifepoint. I attend a local Baptist church here in town. I saw the Lifepoint poster, looked you guys up on the internet, and have been receiving your newsletters ever since.
My family and I attend your traditional “church”. We attend services Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night. We still have Sunday school which we like to call “small group”. There is nothing wrong necessarily with the way we do “church”. But here is what I have experienced and come to understand.
My family went through training to lead a house church several years ago. The training was led by our Missions Pastor who was very progressive in his thinking. That training session was one of the most blessed times that we have ever experienced in the church. We built deep relationships with each family that attended this training. My husband and I grew spiritually during the training and have continued to grow after. We lived “life on life” with these people. We ate with them. We prayed with them. We read God’s word together. We Knew each others needs, hurts, joys, kids, likes, dislikes, etc. We helped each other paint houses, fix stuff, took care of each others kids, made food for each other when it was needed, etc. We got to know each other in a very intimate way. We became family.
That training session ended. We loved it, but we were heavily involved at our church during normal church hours and were in leadership so we had many responsibilities. This training was additional to all our other obligations at church. So we became tired and overwhelmed.
The truth is most people attend church because that is what they are supposed to do. It is a good, moral thing to do, and God wants us to not forsake the fellowship. They serve because that is what they are supposed to do. They feel connected because they serve, but I have seen many families that when they stop serving they realize they were not connected at all. They have a false sense of connection. They get lost in the cracks. So the problem with traditional church is that unless you intentionally build close relationships outside of service and church times you don’t experience the life of the body. You don’t experience community. And so many of those who serve are so tired from their serving that outside of their church responsibilites they just want to rest.
But I must go back to one thing that God taught me this past year. We don’t love him first. We love ourselves first. All that we do should be because we love him first; church attendance, service to others, small groups, house churches.
House churches have their good and bad points as does the traditional church. Each person can decide what works best for them. The most important thing to do is to love God first and then love our neighbor as ourselves. As we go, we should disciple those who are young in the faith and encourage those who are pursuing God. We need to be intentional about building community within the Body of Christ. And as we are full of Christ we need to be a light in the world for those who are perishing.
So instead of “doing church” we need to BE the church. Whether that is in homes or at a building that has been set apart for the purpose of believers coming together.
Thanks for reading my rambling. May God bless your efforts and His ministry He has given you to do.

]]> By: Verge » Blog Archive » Why I Want A First Century Church. http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-230 Verge » Blog Archive » Why I Want A First Century Church. Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:07:49 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-230 [...] James Laws on Why I Don't Want A First Century Church (Part 1) [...] [...] James Laws on Why I Don’t Want A First Century Church (Part 1) [...]

]]> By: Verge » Blog Archive » Why I Don’t Want A First Century Church (Part 2): The Church Is People! http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-234 Verge » Blog Archive » Why I Don’t Want A First Century Church (Part 2): The Church Is People! Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:30:55 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-234 [...] James Laws on Why I Don't Want A First Century Church (Part 1) [...] [...] James Laws on Why I Don’t Want A First Century Church (Part 1) [...]

]]> By: James Laws http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-229 James Laws Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:31:59 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-229 The real problem that I have with the ideas being presented in the book is that the Bible never actually teaches us exactly how "church" should be done and therefore does not teach exactly how "church" shouldn't be done. We are given guidelines but not hard fast rules. For instance, one of the things Paul taught the Corinthians was to "have" church with the outsider in mind. He taught us that it was better to teach an understandable message than to try and impress each other with our "extra-spiritual" gifts. He never said how or where that understandable message was to be presented. What if we stopped trying to sell our preference as the "only" way and started "doing" what we felt God was calling "us" to do. Although I am sure this was not the authors attempt, it seems that this goes farther to divide the church than unite it. Just my two cents. The real problem that I have with the ideas being presented in the book is that the Bible never actually teaches us exactly how “church” should be done and therefore does not teach exactly how “church” shouldn’t be done. We are given guidelines but not hard fast rules.

For instance, one of the things Paul taught the Corinthians was to “have” church with the outsider in mind. He taught us that it was better to teach an understandable message than to try and impress each other with our “extra-spiritual” gifts. He never said how or where that understandable message was to be presented.

What if we stopped trying to sell our preference as the “only” way and started “doing” what we felt God was calling “us” to do. Although I am sure this was not the authors attempt, it seems that this goes farther to divide the church than unite it. Just my two cents.

]]> By: Kevin Stover http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-228 Kevin Stover Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:49:31 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-228 Yeah, that's the problem I have as well. I don't think any one church has cornered the market on the "right" way to do things. I would like to read the book myself. It never hurts to take an honest look at why you do things, where your traditions came from, are they actually hindrances, etc. Perhaps the book is an example of trying to swing the pendulum to an extreme so that it will eventually rest in the middle? Yeah, that’s the problem I have as well. I don’t think any one church has cornered the market on the “right” way to do things. I would like to read the book myself. It never hurts to take an honest look at why you do things, where your traditions came from, are they actually hindrances, etc. Perhaps the book is an example of trying to swing the pendulum to an extreme so that it will eventually rest in the middle?

]]> By: Jenny http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-231 Jenny Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:19:26 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-231 Yeah, I don't like the notion that one particular way (whatever that way may be) is the best and right way for everyone, at all times, in all situations. I personally do like a lot about the house church concept, but I also know it wouldn't work for everyone. I read the blog, and I think that the book probably makes some good and valid points to consider; it never hurts to consider where changes may truly need to be made. But I'm wary of the idea that one particular way is the only right way. Yeah, I don’t like the notion that one particular way (whatever that way may be) is the best and right way for everyone, at all times, in all situations. I personally do like a lot about the house church concept, but I also know it wouldn’t work for everyone.

I read the blog, and I think that the book probably makes some good and valid points to consider; it never hurts to consider where changes may truly need to be made. But I’m wary of the idea that one particular way is the only right way.

]]> By: Kevin Stover http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-233 Kevin Stover Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:08:17 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-233 Thanks for the comment Jenny. I hadn't expected one so quickly :P I hope that everyone would desire community and love, and my goal isn't to say that the early church doesn't model those things for us. My goal is...well, you'll just have to wait and see ;) P.S. I think that house churches are a great way to spread the Gospel and create community, but the authors of the book go a little bit farther than saying that. It's the "only" part of their statements that I don't get along with. They actually give a guide somewhere near the end of the book to help people leave their current church to form/find a house church. Thanks for the comment Jenny. I hadn’t expected one so quickly :P

I hope that everyone would desire community and love, and my goal isn’t to say that the early church doesn’t model those things for us. My goal is…well, you’ll just have to wait and see ;)

P.S. I think that house churches are a great way to spread the Gospel and create community, but the authors of the book go a little bit farther than saying that. It’s the “only” part of their statements that I don’t get along with. They actually give a guide somewhere near the end of the book to help people leave their current church to form/find a house church.

]]> By: Jenny http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/2008/01/03/why-i-dont-want-a-first-century-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-232 Jenny Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:50:16 +0000 http://www.kevinstoverblog.com/?p=193#comment-232 From the perspective of someone not a historian- I definitely think of the community and loving aspects when I think of the early church, and that is absolutely something I want to see among believers now. (And I don't see anything wrong with a house church being one way of attaining that vision, although I don't think it MUST be that way in order to have community.) I'm really interested in hearing a more historically accurate view of the early church. :) From the perspective of someone not a historian- I definitely think of the community and loving aspects when I think of the early church, and that is absolutely something I want to see among believers now. (And I don’t see anything wrong with a house church being one way of attaining that vision, although I don’t think it MUST be that way in order to have community.) I’m really interested in hearing a more historically accurate view of the early church. :)

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